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0|0|Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Captain Corcoran|tobiagorrio@yahoo.com|08:18:38|04/25/2002|I came across an odd little memoir %28by Lynne Farr%2C a writer for the original %5Bi%5DBob Newhart Show%5B%2Fi%5D%29 about %5Bi%5DBob Newhart Show%5B%2Fi%5D exec producer Jay Tarses%2C one of my favorite TV comedy writers %28responsible for some of the most quirky%2C uncompromising%2C doomed sitcoms ever to appear on network TV%2C like %5Bi%5DBuffalo Bill%5B%2Fi%5D%29.  I don%27t know what to make of this article exactly%2C but I think it%27s an interesting take on the difficulties of being a woman writer in a writers%27 room full of men%2C and of Jay Tarses%27 startling resemblance%2C personality-wise%2C to Elliott Carlin on %5Bi%5DBob Newhart%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wga.org%2FWrittenBy%2F0201%2Fmentor.html%0D%0A%0D%0A  %28Now I%27m trying to remember who are the other women writers MTM had in its %2770s golden age -- I can think offhand of Charlotte Brown%2C Lissa Levin%2C and the brilliant Treva Silverman.%29
1|1|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Sancia|sancia@prodigy.net|08:35:32|04/25/2002|I really enjoyed the article%2C thanks.  I was wondering if she ever got her screenplay done%3F
2|1|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Dawn|Dmcell1@aol.com|20:09:01|05/22/2002|I was just thinking about Jay Tarses%2C because of a quote from a female author of a book called HOW TO WRITE FOR TELEVISION.  She wrote some episodes of THE BOB NEWHART SHOW and was praising Jay%27s ability to understand women.  Her example was a show where a woman woke up in the morning and wondered whether she should shave her legs.  She thought it was really cool that a male writer could get into a woman%27s mind like that.  It is a question women struggle with ---briefly some days.%0D%0A
3|2|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Chad||12:12:43|05/23/2002|I worked on three pilots this season%3B two had woman leads and woman exec. producers and one had a male exec. producer.  The two with woman exec. producers got picked up %28one regular series%2C one midseason%29 and the male helmed one didn%27t go.  One might be inclined to think that they were ordered because they were done by women%2C when in fact it had nothing to do with whether the creators had a penis or vagina.  They were ordered because they were truly funny and marketable.%0D%0AWhen I was in college in Florida there were people trying to reverse its affirmative action law.  Being a caucasian male%2C I never really thought about any of this%2C but immediately thought it was wrong.  Then%2C a good friend of mine%2C a caucasian male%2C was denied entrance into the law school with grades and test scores that were above the average of the incoming class.  That bothered me.  What if I needed a lawyer at some point and they were admitted to law school not because they were in the top percentage of applicants%2C but because there weren%27t enough of their particular race%2C creed or color in the school%3F%0D%0ANow%2C in the world of sitcom staffing%2C I%27m hearing stories about men going into meetings and being told that a particular show is looking for a minority woman.  They aren%27t looking for the funniest spec or the coolest person%2C they%27re looking for a minority woman.  What if you or I are funnier and a better match for a particular show than a minority woman%3F%0D%0AI%27ve read specs from women that were great and from guys that were great.  I%27ve also read horrible ones from each sex.  I%27m not saying that I%27m against equality%2C because I%27m not.  I%27m not bitter in any way towards minorities %28except the girls that don%27t talk to me in bars%29 I%27m bitter at the system.  I don%27t know what can be done about this or if anyone else shares my sentiments%2C but one day I would like to go to a meeting and know that I will be given a fair shake regardless of whether or not I stand up or sit down to take a piss.%0D%0A%0D%0AChad
4|3|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Zap|ZapProd@wcnet.org|18:11:47|05/23/2002|Chad%2C%0D%0A%0D%0AI can%27t believe how wrong you are%2C and how insulated your life must be from the rest of the world.%0D%0A%0D%0A1.  There is no such thing as a fair shake.  You will be judged by others by many factors%2C some out of your control.%0D%0A%0D%0A2.  Why couldn%27t you use a %22minority%22 lawyer%3F  Wouldn%27t you judge the lawyer by his or her law school or post law school credentials%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A3.  Racism is alive and well in this country.  Ask your %22minority%22 friends.  I%27m sure they will explain this.%0D%0A%0D%0AOthers may have more to say on this.  If no one does%2C this country is in a lot more trouble than I thought.%0D%0A%0D%0AZap
6|4|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Captain Corcoran|tobiagorrio@yahoo.com|19:35:56|05/23/2002|%0D%0A%3EOthers may have more to say %0D%0A%3Eon this.  If no %0D%0A%3Eone does%2C this country is %0D%0A%3Ein a lot more trouble %0D%0A%3Ethan I thought. %0D%0A%0D%0A  I%27ve always been a little suspicious of %22affirmative action%22 laws because I can%27t help fearing their potential to be used against Jews %28you know%2C the %22we%27ll make room for more of %5Bi%5Dthis%5B%2Fi%5D group by shutting out the Jews%22 type of thinking.  It%27s happened before%29.  But if a University or company wants%2C of its own volition%2C to make an effort to hire more women or minorities%2C I don%27t see a problem with that.  There are concrete benefits to %22diversity%22 -- particularly on a writing staff%2C which can benefit from a variety of backgrounds and viewpoints -- and I really don%27t think most employers will neglect their self-interest enough to hire under-qualified people.  And if they do take in under-qualified people%2C they%27ll probably suffer for it in terms of the quality of the school%2Fbusiness%2C and that%27s their own problem.  Maybe I%27m over-optimistic.
7|4|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Captain Corcoran|tobiagorrio@yahoo.com|19:44:14|05/23/2002|%0D%0A%3E3.  Racism is alive and %0D%0A%3Ewell in this country.  %0D%0A%3EAsk your %22minority%22 friends.  %0D%0A%3EI%27m sure they will explain %0D%0A%3Ethis. %0D%0A%0D%0A  The question is%2C of course%2C if someone is denied admittance for no better reason than his gender or race%2C then isn%27t that person a victim of racism%3F  Or does racism cease to be racism in such a case%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A  As I said in my other post%2C I%27m somewhat skeptical that this scenario -- someone being turned down for no better reason than being a white male -- really happens all that often.  But if it does happen%2C then I can%27t think of anything to call it but racism.
8|5|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Captain Corcoran|tobiagorrio@yahoo.com|20:14:40|05/23/2002|Reading over that last post of mine%2C I find it too controversy-baiting in tone%2C for which I feel I should apologize%2C since that it wasn%27t my intention to post flamebait. 
9|4|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Chad||15:43:33|05/24/2002|Either I didn%27t get my point across or it was misinterpreted.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy whole point of the post was say that at some point in time I would like there to be such a thing as a fair shake.  As far as me not using a minority lawyer%2C I never said I wouldn%27t.  I said I would not be happy if someone was giving me advice of any kind that wasn%27t the most qualified.  I would totally judge someone on their credentials and past performance.  If someone gets a job or into a school because they are a minority%2C are they being judged by their credentials%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t deny that racism exists%2C but how is what NBC%27s doing by only looking for minority women helping.  I know there are ton of funny minority women%2C but is there a point where NBC shows will give up humor for diversity by hiring along such strict guidelines%3F  Why wouldn%27t they want the 20 or so funniest people in the room.  Who cares what color or sex they are.  I know that%27s naive of me to think this way%2C but if everyone dropped the labels of minority%2C white%2C black%2C male%2C female there wouldn%27t be any way to segregate.  This message board is a perfect example.  People use pseudonyms and therefore we don%27t know if they are male or female or what race they are.  Judgements are made about people based on what they post.  You learn what kind of person they are before you even know what they look like.   %0D%0A%0D%0AAs far as being insulated%2C let me just say that at the age of ten%2C my sister had her first encounter with an African American gentleman and just assumed it was Mr. Green Jeans from Captain Kangaroo since that it the only other time she had seen an African American.  She meant no disrepect by it%2C but it does show how insulated I was.
10|5|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Zap|ZapProd@wcnet.org|19:19:18|05/24/2002|I%27ve heard it said that beneath the surface of every cynic is a bruised idealist.  %0D%0A%0D%0AGiven what I%27ve learned about the business through this board and through life%2C you must certainly realize people tend to hire friends.  Very often%2C friends are people similar to you in belief systems and background.  How can people who haven%27t had the opportunity to become friends with those already in the industry supposed to get a chance%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you can prove NBC is only looking for minority women%2C then you probably have good grounds for a lawsuit%2C but as we both know%2C people who aren%27t %22get along%22 guys or gals work only once.  %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ll let this go with one last point.  Humor is incredibly subjective.  Maybe what%27s funny to minority women isn%27t funny to you%3F  Maybe NBC thinks they can make money by appealing to minority women%3F  Maybe it%27ll be funny to the entire nation%2C and they%27ll be the geniuses that discovered this largely untapped pool of talent%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ATo be honest%2C every time I get rejected for a job%2C I wonder how the people doing the hiring can be so blind%2C since I was obviously the best candidate.  I wonder this for a short time%2C then I realize it just wasn%27t my turn.  In my heart%2C I hope each person ends up getting a turn.  I worry that I won%27t.%0D%0A%0D%0AChad%2C you%27re in a place and time where many turns will come your way.  Make the most of them.%0D%0A%0D%0AZap%0D%0A%0D%0A
5|2|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Captain Corcoran|tobiagorrio@yahoo.com|19:04:06|05/23/2002|%3EI was just thinking about Jay %0D%0A%3ETarses%2C because of a quote %0D%0A%3Efrom a female author of %0D%0A%3Ea book called HOW TO %0D%0A%3EWRITE FOR TELEVISION.  She %0D%0A%3Ewrote some episodes of THE %0D%0A%3EBOB NEWHART SHOW and was %0D%0A%3Epraising Jay%27s ability to understand %0D%0A%3Ewomen. %0D%0A%0D%0A  Yeah%2C Tarses is one of those writers for whom %22strong female character%22 means something more than it does to most TV writers %28usually when you hear a TV writer talking about how %22strong%22 his -- or even her -- female characters%2C are%2C it turns out to mean almost nothing%29. It%27s been said before%2C but %5Bi%5DThe Days and Nights of Molly Dodd%5B%2Fi%5D probably did %22Ally McBeal%22 better than %22Ally%22 did.  %0D%0A%0D%0AI still say that Tarses reminds me of Mr. Carlin%2C personality-wise.  In fact%2C I keep suspecting that some of Carlin%27s misanthropy may have come from Tarses himself.  %28In the pilot%2C Carlin was pretty much a standard neurotic.%29
11|3|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Dawn||19:28:24|05/24/2002|I didn%27t mean to touch off a debate on sexism in television.  I was paying Jay a compliment that he could get into a female mind.  As a female writer%2C I%27ve noticed that many shows have the men moving the main story along and women seem to show up to cause romantic rivalry.  For example in %22ED%22%2C the main story is some kind of legal problem for him to solve while he pines away for sappy Carol Vessey. The only %22strong female%22 is the overweight science teacher.  Can a beautiful female character be strong%2C caring and move the main plot line forward%3F  Even as a female writer%2C I automatically put men in as the ones who push the main story forward-.  
12|4|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Captain Corcoran|tobiagorrio@yahoo.com|21:11:17|05/24/2002|%3EI didn%27t mean to touch off %0D%0A%3Ea debate on sexism in %0D%0A%3Etelevision. %0D%0A%0D%0A  You didn%27t%2C don%27t worry %28the %22debate%22 posts were responses to my original post%2C not yours%29.
13|5|RE%3A Strange Article on Jay Tarses|Chad||21:29:54|05/24/2002|Wow.  The only explanation I can come up with is somewhere between my brain and the computer my  thoughts are being turned around.%0D%0A%0D%0AHere it goes%2C for the last time%2C as plainly as I can say it.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe two pilots that I worked on were created by women%2C exec. produced by women and starred women.  They were great and they got picked up because they were great%2C not because there was a woman involved.  Look for talent everywhere and you will by definition diversify.%0D%0A%0D%0AChad